Whenever major steroids news breaks, we can be assured of a few things: shock, outrage, overreaction, and moralizing. I don't think anything I can say will head that off at the pass, but let me at least try. This is addressed mostly to the sports media, but let's just make it a general "to whom it may concern:"
You're not surprised, so please don't pretend you are. The only people who will truly surprise you to be associated with steroids are Derek Jeter, juniors Cal Ripken and Ken Griffey, and dudes like Jason Tyner and whatnot (though guys like him shouldn't surprise you).
You've not been betrayed, so please don't claim to be. You enjoyed the baseball of those years and nothing of value has been taken from you as a result of recent revelations. While it's totally legitimate to be turned off and disappointed and generally depressed about all of this, if your sense of trust has been so violated by all of this steroids business that you actually feel the need to claim "betrayal," you probably need to examine if you're still a fan or not.
And you know this one is going to come up like crazy, so let's be perfectly clear: the Red Sox' championship in 2004 is not tainted. At least no more tainted than the outcome of any other championship won by any other team in at least the past 20 years, not to mention the awards and the regular season games and everything else, so please don't even go there. Baseball had a steroids problem. Not just the Red Sox, not just the Yankees, not just the Orioles, Rangers or A's. As such, to the extent one uses this latest news as a means of singling out the Sox, one is simply showing that they see the entire world through rivalries and not reason.
Now, with that out of the way, you may resume your regularly-scheduled outrage.
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"Shock and awe" have been replaced by "Blah and yawn".
Why should we yawn and ignore it. "You enjoyed the baseball" We would have also enjoyed it if 100 less players were on drugs. In fact it would have made the game more competitive. Seems the druggies were concentrated on winning teams. w/o the drugs the competition would have been much closer and better. With your logic why bother bother testing. Hell lets just setup a pitching machine on the mound so we can have 120+ MPH fast balls all day. The team that can buy/build the best machine wins.
FAIL!
Bounty - we only a handful of the 104 players who tested positive, so your statement that the "druggies were concentrated on winning teams" is ill-founded. Are you saying that a player on a bad team can't find a physical trainer who will provide him with Performance Enhancing Drugs.
And competition is seldom that close between the better teams and the also-rans. In the pre-steroid era, the Yankees routine beat up on the American League, year in year out.
The biggest effect I can see from the rampant use of steroids is the rapid wearing out of pitchers. Pitchers like Bob Gibson and Tom Seaver routinely pitched 20 or more complete games in a season. Now pitchers may go a whole season without ever finishing a game.
I would agree these continual steroid reports has tainted my enjoyment of the game, particularly for the statistical records of players in the last 15 years. But PED have been equally available to both the good and bad teams, so its net effect is apt to be neutral.
Is anyone truly surprised. I think you should add Pujols to that list of people we would be disappointed with. And being such a big guy, people can't help but be suspicious and its sad.
Good point, DC. Pujols would be another.
Don't let Tim McCarver read that Pujols statement, he raves on FOX about Pujols being THE BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME.... AND HE TELLS U THIS when the Mets are playing the Braves..........
And what does that have to do with the topic of conversation?
I'm not happy to hear they were doing PED's back then, it's like I've said before, they are good enough that they shouldn't need it. I hate cheaters, period.
I should also point out that at this point we don't know what they took and if it was illegal at the time, of course odds are it very much was, which makes this disappointing but unfortunately not very surprising. And I don't buy the "I was drinking shakes that might have had something in it, woopsie." excuse for a second.
Just let Andre Dawson, Jack Morris, and Tim Raines into the HOF and then build a new building right next door and call it the "New and Enhanced HOF".
I am a Mets fan (sigh) but it would really bother me if Pujols was positive. Having said that, I fully expected that Ortiz was juicing. Look at the spike in his stats when he joined Manny, and the drop when testing got serious.
The innocence of my childhood has been lost forever.
One the plus side I have a delicious 'protein shake' from the Dominican Republic to enjoy that should wash away all my shock and outrage...delicious and energizing!
Who cares? Actually, I am a little pissed off. However, what I'm pissed off about is this stupid list. I'm not a big fan of the union, but they negotiated in good faith and were assured the results would be anonymous and for statistical purposes only. Then it turns out names were attached to the results and six years after the fact a few names from the list start trickling out. The union representation should be demanding that the leak be found and fired. Whether people realize it or not, the players have the moral high ground on this situation. Regardless of one's opinion of steroids we should all be concerned about the lack of integrity that resulted in these names coming out. Find the reporter and torture him to find out his source.
Craig, do you just recycle this same story ever time another steroid user is outed? I feel like you've written this one before. The only thing more annoying than the sports media's shock, outrage, overreaction, and moralizing, are bloggers complaining about the sports media's shock, outrage, overreaction, and moralizing.
Mike, the internet has encouraged this behavior from " sports writers " and I use the term litely,such as Craig, they are trying to make themselves relevant. This behavior NAUSEATING and SICKENING. It is shame that sports reporters have sunk to a all time low.
Mike -- maybe it's presumptuous of me to write preemptively, but my view of it is that I'll stop talking about the silliness of mainstream media steroid outrage when the mainstream media stops it's silly outrage.
Mark my words: within the next 48 hours there will be a ton of columnists talking about how they're betrayed and shocked and everything else, as if we haven't gone through this same dance a hundred times now.
You know what HOT ROD, if his writing upsets your delicate sensibilities so much why do you go out of your way to read and then comment on his stories? I remember reading you saying something about never reading his articles again, yet here you are whining about it. How much money have you made as a professional writer? Don't knock someone elses' career just because they are better at it than you.
And if it sounds similar it's for the exact reasons Craig said, every time someone else is outed as a user we go through the same motions.
Good point against Hot Rod. I will say this, it be nice for more writed to quit the "im shocked and upset" articles and move into the "No surprise, lets move on" articles that we have finally started to see.
Well said, Craig.
largebill, the names of the players had to be attached to their sample so that MLB had proof that every player had provided a sample. The samples and results were to be destroyed after the players and MLB were notified of the results. The problem is that a grand jury issued a subpoena for the results of the survey testing less than a week after the results were returned. So then the samples and results couldn't be destroyed. The Feds have all the samples and results.
Are you suggesting Ripken, Jeter and Griffey were juiced too?
Regarding Manny and Ortiz... I would bet they weren't the only one on the Roid Sox doing the juice during that era.
I wonder if Curt Schilling thinks his WS Rings from the Sox are tainted, considering he benefitted from these two numskulls?
I truly don't understand the idea of anything being "tainted". Unless you believe that nobody on the other teams was also using that year, which seems highly unlikely. If both teams had cheaters, then how is a victory "tainted"?
Also, why would anybody be so surprised if Jeter, Griffey or Ripken showed up on the list? Remember - we don't really know any of these guys. Just because they seem like good guys doesn't mean anything. Were you surprised to see Brian Roberts' name in the Mitchell Report? I was at first, then remembered - We don't really know these guys!!
Ah the "Everybody was doing it so it makes it okay argument". It's tainted because two of your principal players cheated, period.
Plus I don't know where you've been living if you were surprised to see Brian Roberts on the Mitchell Report, hmmm let's see slugging percentage .341, .297, .367, .376, ..................... .515.
Now dont kid yourself. If Cal Ripken JRs name comes out, people will cry. He played next to Brian Roberts, next to Brady Anderson for many years, and next to roid raging Albert Belle. Next to Rafeal Palmeiro and Jason Grimsley. He played with known cheaters, and against numerous others. He could easily have used, but no one suspects. So if his name comes out, you want to talk about a truly sad day is baseball, there you go. No more "no surprise, just another name" but "OMG, not him, dear God not him!!!" reactions. I am not accusing, just making the argument for the shock.
funny how they won 4 in arow from yanks 4 in arow in world ser and red sox fans so no fix drugs is fixed power u will find out lowell and the catcher varitec on that lise even the nuckle baller pls owners know coaches know..
Pete gammons knows they r all full of it
Wow, nice spelling and grammer. Lowell wasn't on the 2004 Sox. Other than that, I can't really figure out what you're trying to say.
Let him that casts the first stone...well you know how it goes. You misspelled grammar. Ironic. And I do agree with you, I haven't a clue what "carlog" is trying so in vain to communicate.
oops - now I feel stupid. Nice catch, though.
The fact that you printed this blog is indicative of the '04 Championship being tainted. I'll bet Garciaparra is on that list too.
That was a rumor already. Poor Nomar though, cmon gets traded and then the Sox win, has a couple of injuries, and now may be implicated to be on the juice. He was the staple of the Sox and a class act on the field, from what we knew. That would just be very unfortunate for him.
Mr. Craig Calcaterra, I must take exception with your scrutable logic when you say
"So let's be perfectly clear: the Red Sox' championship in 2004 is not tainted. At least no more tainted than the outcome of any other championship won by any other team in at least the past 20 years".
So is it tainted, or NOT tainted? All I do know is that you have a very curious sense of contradictory logic.
Ok, enougn mincing words. They're ALL tainted, and not just the championships in the past two decades. The pennants, the games, the workouts, the spring training festivities, anything that involves money and competition - it's tainted. Make no mistake about it. It's not really even a matter HOW tainted as you seem to refer to in your article. We don't live in a B&W world, true, but the issue of PEDs and unfair advantages in sports is not unique to the past two decades, not unique to baseball, and not unique to America (Tour de France, anyone?).
The 2004 BoSox championship was tainted, and very much so. What a cinderally tale! What a tale of amazing comeback after amazing comeback, of camaraderie, of whatever. The only thing less trustworthy in America or the world than politics and politicians are professional athletes and their respective organizations.
I would to congratulate the Pittsburgh Pirates for being the most "untainted" team of the era. They might not win every night, or every other night or in consecutive decades, but at least they stayed of the juice. Go BUCS!
I would like to congratulate the Pittsburgh Pirates for being the most "untainted" team of the era. They might not win every night, or every other night or even in consecutive decades, but at least they stayed off the juice. Go BUCS!
So let me get this straight....
Manny gets caught doping as a Dodger and everybody is ready to hang him for the rafters for it. However, he & Ortiz are nailed as Red Sox and we're now being told not to "go there"?
True hypocrisy if I've ever heard it.
Maybe it would be hypocrisy if I ever thought Manny should have been hung from the rafters. Personally, I've been pretty consistent on all of this.
Of course I don't mean hanging from the rafter literally, Craig (that's actually just a figure of speech).
What I am saying is that it when Manny was caught doping this spring, the media and the fans really said some awful things about him. With all of the bad feelings between him and the Red Sox Nation, it was hard not to wonder if many of these critics were either still-angry Red Sox fans (or journalists employed by Boston-based media outlets). He truly deserved to be suspended (and ridiculed) for what he did but, after a while, it just all seemed very excessive. It was hard to believe that these all of these critics were Dodger fans and after watching how they cheered him on when he came back, it was even harder not to wonder about this.
Now that this is has come out today about what happened in Boston with him and Ortiz, it just doesn't seem reasonable not to expect the same reaction again. Speaking as a Tribe fan (not an easy thing to be these days, by the way!), I'd expect the same for any of our players if they were exposed as 'roiders. They wouldn't get a free pass from me, that's for sure. Cheating is cheating, no matter what town you're in. Cleveland, Boston, LA - it doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned.
The thing that galls me, that no one seems to care about anymore, is that these "players" are cheaters, plain and simple. They consciously cimcumvented established rules to take actions that would give them a distinctly unfair advantage. Why shouldn't there be outrage? Especially when they appear so blase about the fact they've been caught cheating!
We admire these players for their natural physical abilities, not their pharmaceutical enhancements. I can take steroids, ANYONE can take steroids, so why are these people special anymore? I can take a scrawny sixth grader, load him up on the juice, and make a Canseco-like player out of him in 8 years. Do people really believe that's the same thing as the kid who's out there every day, taking the extra batting practice, running all the drills as hard as he can, getting up early and staying late so that he can be as good as he can possibly be? I say, hell no! These cheaters are frauds and they should be treated as such.
Were I the Baseball Commissioner, 3 things would happen:
1. All players would be tested every 3 days while under contract. Winter, spring, summer and fall. Blood, hair and urine tests.
2. A first positive test would result in a full year suspension, and for the next two years, the player in question could make no more than the league minimum.
3. Second positive result--lifetime ban.
Whaddaya wanna bet that would stir things up?
Team A had four guys using bad stuff five years ago, but two of them are gone now. Team B had three guys on the juice back then, but two of them are playing for other teams now and the third one retired. Team C has nobody using steroids presently, but had three or four using them when Team A won the pennant. Other teams that finished out of the money had one or more guys using bad stuff, but nobody cared because they were losers.
What's tainted? Everything, really. But people are still willing to pay $100 for a seat at the ballpark. As long as that situation persists, don't expect anything to change.
This is vindication for Yankee fans that had to deal with the biased Mitchell report. Ortiz and Manny were the most important members of those title teams, so yeah those titles are tainted. The Yankees that were on that Mitchell List werent guys that were major contributors. Without those two guys, the Sox dont even make the playoffs, let alone win titles.
The problem with making a blanket statement like that is that it sounds like fact, when you can't possibly know it's true. The other problem with your logic is you assume no one else on the Yankees was taking anything, when logically someone else was.
And you say the Mitchell report was biased because there were no current Red Sox players on it? You apparently don't know much more about George Mitchell than what you read on his Wikipedia article (if even that). How many players would have to have been on that report for it to be "legit" in your eyes? And I should also point out that it's not like he was given a list from on-high, maybe he just didn't find any evidence of Red Sox players taking drugs.
Look at it from the point of view of every single member of the MLB administration, Union administration, team administration, etc? Would they have been ok with Mitchell running the investigation if they thought he would just give a blanket pass to Red Sox players, thus making ALL of them look even dumber? Once someone has solid evidence that Mitchell or anyone else gave ANYONE a pass during any investigation let's see it, don't just make things up to salve your ego.
Oh but its just so great to see redsuk fans eat crow after this came out today. They sat around for the last how many years saying "the Yankees titles are tainted because of Andy, Giambi, ect". Well today we got the truth that George Mitchell did NOT want to tell us, the media should be questioning him today asking how he missed this during his so-called "investigation". I hope Yankee fans greet Ortiz in the proper fashion with a nice long steroid chant the sameway the baston fagful greeted Giambi. Show no mercy when baston comes to town next month!
Absolutely! And why isn't there some sort of greater hue & cry about George Mitchell and his infamous, inconsistent, politically-biased, and highly incendiary report? Next thing you know we'll learn that Bobby Fischer was 'roiding up it, or Kasparov was on PEDs. Maybe even IBM's Blue Monster was on some sort of high-voltage power adapter too. Tsk tsk.
please, tainted, tainted, poisoned.....F red-sox nation. if they used in '03, chance are they used in '04. enough said, no proof needed.
did i mention, F red-sox nation?
Yeah, we got the gist if your childish and pathetic argument, unfortunately the majority of us would like it if you actually had some proof and weren't just using this as an attack against a team you clearly have an ulterior motive to hate.
The fact of the matter is, the Red Sox could not and would not have won in 2004 and 2007 without David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez. Both were CLEARLY entirely different players when they were juicing. Hell, from '03 - '07 people compared them to Ruth and Gehrig. What a hoot.
If you believe that Barry Bonds should have an asterisk next to his single season and career home run records (which everyone does) then you must believe the Red Sox championships, ridden on the shoulders of two monumental cheaters, should have asterisks as well.
The writer's argument is weak at best. If the entire era is marred by steroid use and cheating then yes, put an asterisk next to the whole thing. I enjoyed watching baseball during that time and I could care less. It doesn't taint the 20+ championships that my team won prior to 1980.
Barry Bonds is a jerk and truly and completely unliked all around baseball. He also lied to the grand jury, has major legal issues, and is a super prick! Did i mention he is a prick? Anyways, the point being Bonds is not remorseful and still in denial. He is not well liked nor legitimate. He was pushed out of baseball, remember. He is still not retired, just on a year and a half hiatis i guess... Manny and David were likeable and still are. Mannywood is still strong even after the suspension. Ortiz was still heavily cheered last night and will continue to be. Cheaters have ruined the game, and i hate it. But i must defend it. That old sayin "well if everyone jumped off a bridge, would you?" and the answer is yes. If every damn person we knew went bridge jumping, so would we. Especially if jumping off a bridge made me millions. And if I was a damn good jumper to begin with, and bridge jumping put me on another level even after everyone did it, hell ya, sign me up. I get paid, I get fame, and everyones doing it already. Please, dont kid yourself guys. Your not in that world so you just don't know. So hate cheaters, kick and cry, but don't pretend these are all bad people and every world series should be removed. The individual records though, are truly a tough call. There is no good solution or right answer, and with Bud Selig as commissioner, be assured, whatever is done is not what the public wants anyways...
Problem it comes down to with this is that, even though it's Red Sox players that are being focused on here, you don't know who all was on the juice on the other teams that they competed against. Every team, at some point, most likely had players like this on their rosters so, to me, all things would be equal. Sad and pathetic, maybe, but equal.