Remember yesterday's uproar as a result of that ump telling Jeter he was out because the ball beat him to the bag? Well, that's not what he said he said:
[Crew Chief John] Hirschbeck spoke to Foster on Tuesday and got a different version. Here's what Hirschbeck said Foster told Jeter at the time: "The ball beat you, and I had him tagging you."
"I don't see a problem with that," Hirschbeck said. "Sometimes when tempers flare, you don't hear everything that's said."
Interesting. But not nearly as interesting as it will be if someone in the New York press gets Jeter on the record today about all of this. Because he pretty much has to say the ump was lying, right? And when you do that, you usually get fined or something, don't you? More likely scenario: Jeter gets away with some non-committal quote and everyone drops it because he's the Captain and no one ever seems to want the Captain to look bad.
Meanwhile, the mind reels at the notion of what all of this would look like if it had been Alex Rodriguez getting thrown out at third with nobody out in the first inning.
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I think Hirschbeck is right, but I just can't fully believe what Foster claims to have said, after the fact. It's too convenient, too after-the-fact.
You've got the NY haterade flowin' this AM, eh Craig?
I live for it, baby!
You are an AS_!
LMM: Please put your sarcasm detector on a more sensitive setting. Thank you.
My apologies. How about "you are a knucklehead"? Fee better do ya?
See, I'd have responded with a little Shakespeare:
"But, masters, remember that I am an
ass; though it be not written down, yet forget not
that I am an ass."
Dogberry, Much Ado About Nothing IV ii
The umpire realized what he said was stupid...so he changed his story. Why didn't he clarify what he said while they were all arguing? Numbskull.
Seems plausible to me that someone would react angrily and not hear what actually said -- how many of us have had our spouse claim we said something ridiculous when what we said was much more nuanced?
So, Jeter's pissed that he got called out, and the umpire says, "The throw beat you, and..." but that's all Jeter heard, and that fuels his anger more.
So, I'm fine with Jeter getting away with something non-committal. And I'm also fine with the possibility that he is getting away with it but someone like A-Rod might not. He's earned the benefit of the doubt.
Lord have mercy, this is such a non-issue! Umps have been proven wrong by instant replay before, and it doesn't matter. Regardless of what he said, or what he later said he said, or what Jeter said he said, the call on the field stands. The end.
Jeter was (in reality) safe, but the Ump blew the call and called him out. I don't know why what they said really matters much, other than perhaps explaining why Girardi was thrown out.
how many hundreds of times has jeter had a phantom tag of second while attempting to turn a double play?
Thank you.
Yes. Exactly.
That's called the neighborhood rule, and every middle infielder in the majors does it.
An ump can say whatever he wants, but there may be consequences. You don't want umps saying stupid things, pissing off players, and undermining confidence in the game. Everyone is a jerk sometimes, and I have to believe that Foster was a jerk in this situation. The after the fact spin doesn't change anything here. My guess is that Foster will watch his Ps and Qs going forward. We don't need a wise ass umpire.
What was said matters, because if the Ump said what Jeter claims, he's not abiding by the rules of baseball. The ball beating you to a bag only matters in a force out (aside from the fact the ball techically must beat you for you to be tagged out). And....one of the great plays in baseball, especially at home plate, is when a player avoids the tag. Nothing like a player sliding very wide of the plate and hooking it with his toe or reaching out at the last minute and fingering it as he narrowly escapes the catcher's tap. The Ump needs to follow the rules of the game. If he missed the call, so be it, it happens....but follow the rules of the game!!
I think the issue isn't that Jeter was actually safe, as said before, umps miss calls sometimes, you deal with it. The issue is what Jeter claims the ump said, which would imply that the umpire is calling the game based on the universal rule that anytime a ball beats the runner, the runner is out, regardless of whether a tag is made. In a bang-bang type play, sure, if the ball beats you, you're out, but using that as a universal is just lazy umpiring.
The ump is clearly lying, and as proof, look at Hirshbeck's comments after the game. Immediately after the game, and presumably after talking to Foster about the play, Hirshbeck said something along the lines of Jeter had a right to be angry if he was told he was out because the ball beat him. If Foster really told Hirshbeck or Jeter that he had actually said he "had" the 3B tagging Jeter, Hirshbeck would have said so immediately after the game. He didn't.
There also would have been no reason for Girardi to have been ejected if Foster had actually said, on the field, that he had the 3B tagging Jeter. When Girardi came out, Foster would have just said, "Joe, I think Derrick mis-heard me. I did not say he was out because the ball beat him. I said he was out becuase the ball beat him AND the 3B tagged him." I can't see Girardi getting himself tossed over a true miscommunication.
But he did get tossed. Because there was no miscommunication. Foster went with the lazy umpire excuse and now, seeing how rediculous that looks, is lying about it.
Cheesemonkey cornsyruptoast flaky bagelnut
There's no smoke beyond the initial hearsay and I don't expect that we will hear any more commentary from Jeter on this subject. (Continue to mess with an umpire's livelihood and "The Jordan Rules" will no longer be in effect.)
This really is not a big deal....let go of it. The game ended.
It DOES matter...
2 batters later a deep fly went to center, Jeter would have tagged and scored. The Yankees lost by 1 run. If they are one game out of it at the end of the year, it matters a hell of a lot.
Of course, that is a clear example of the 'fallacy of the pre-determined outcome', but I stand by it here. One PITCH can make all the difference in this game, that is one of the beauties of it...everything that follows changes because of a call on a single pitch. How the fielders are set up, what pitch the catcher calls for, whether a runner attempts to steal or leaves early, whether the batter takes a swing on the next pitch or not, etc.
There are some umps that have a bit of a superiority complex, and they need to be encouraged to lose that. They need to get better at making correct calls, and need to get better at handling potentially explosive situations better.
Look at the picture - - - OUT!
The umpire should not have said anything. He is not obligated to explain his calls to the players or the managers. If you are called out, you are out. This is not the first time a call has been missed. This is part of what makes baseball great. Let it go.
Jeter is not one to create controversy, I have to believe the umpires are covering up for Fosters comment. If he had said that he had Rolen tagging him, Jeter would not have reacted the way he did, whether you like Jeter or not his reaction can only be attributed to Foster saying what Jeter claims he said. By the way Jim in Ct. I watch the slo-mo video last night again and it is not conclusive that a tag was made but let's assume Rolens glove did nick Jeters right arm and Jeter was called out in a close call and Foster said he saw the tag again Jeter would not have reacted the way he did.
Who really cares? Much ado about nothing!
this discussion brings up a question i have had for some time. when an umpire makes an incorrect call, are the plays reviewed by anyone? is there a fine or a demerit or some penalty on the mistaken umpire? they have instant replay for calls on home runs. how about a fine of $1,000 on wrong calls by the umpire? maybe even keeping track so those umpires don't work the playoff's or world series.
how else are we to get better umpiring?
The ump missed the Jeter play which cost the Yankees at least one run. OK. A few innings later, the second base umpire missed another call, this time even more blatant, when Jeter's throw to Cano on a force easily beat the runner, but was called safe. That ultimately cost the Yanks three runs when Toronto hit a two-out three run homer. OK. A bit later, the second base ump missed it again when he called the Yanks out on a force play at second when it was clear to everyone that the fielder was no where near the bag when he caught the throw.
The real issue here is the level of competence of the umpiring crews. If you watch a lot of baseball, which I do, you see so many calls that are routinely blown that you wonder what special qualifications makes these guys professional umps. Where is the accountability?
Speaking as a softball umpire with over 25 years' experience, it is AWFULLY TOUGH to call someone safe at 3rd (or 2nd for that matter) when the throw beats the runner to the base. One has to be darn sure that something 'funky' has happened to warrant a safe call. While I can understand the comment allegedly attributed to the umpire, I find it very hard to accept that the umpire actually verbalized this to Jeter! I have seen this replay a few times, and it looks like Jeter was out. Of course I wasn't there with the play in front of me.
Now I am a Yankee's fan, and a fan of Jeter. From the accounts I read, the Yankees' 3rd base coach quickly got in between Jeter and the umpire. It is the manager's job (way to go Joe) to 'express his displeasure' with the call.
During my 25+ years as an ump, I can honestly say that I never threw a player out of a game; they threw themselves out (bad language, throwing of equipment (like what Manny did last night), physical contact, etc). No umpire intentionally makes a bad call, but we are all human, and an 'oops' can occur. The greater injustice is to try to 'make up' for that call later in the game. If you 'blow' a call, suck it up, and bear down harder.
This should be a done deal, and all sides should accept the fact that mistakes, however unfortunate, will occur. This is what makes baseball the great American pastime that it is.
Craig, I would lie to see Jeter FART INTO YOUR MOUTH, NYC style
This article is weaksauce. Wondering if this comment will be deleted like my last one.
"Shut up and play" I always liked that phrase, get's right to the point.