Craig touched on Frank Thomas' likely retirement this morning and his noting that "Thomas will be an interesting Hall of Fame case" because "the BBWAA can be unfair and irrational" has me preemptively annoyed about a vote that won't take place for at least another five years.
Thomas was my favorite player growing up, which is admittedly an odd sentiment for a Twins fan. However, when The Big Hurt was at his baseball-crushing best my beloved Twins were finishing in fourth or fifth place for eight straight seasons, so they were barely worth following and the White Sox were on WGN just about every day when baseball-watching options were limited.
A 6-foot-5, 250-pound mountain of a man who played tight end at Auburn and was a massive slugger from the moment that he arrived in the majors as a 22-year-old in 1990, the sheer magnitude of Thomas' physical size and offensive numbers made a fan in me immediately. And now, two decades later, I'm here to tell you that he's the most underrated hitter in the history of baseball. Seriously.
Because of what has happened to power numbers and power hitters during the past decade or so Thomas is often talked about as just another great slugger from this era, but that misses the boat in a big way. Albert Pujols is the best player in baseball and surely everyone would agree that at 29 years old he's on track to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer, but look at his numbers compared to Thomas' stats at the same age:
G PA AVG OBP SLG OPS+ Pujols 1312 5696 .334 .426 .628 171 Thomas 1076 4789 .330 .452 .600 182
Pujols has hit .334 with a 1.054 OPS, whereas Thomas hit .330 with a 1.052 OPS through the age of 29. Plus, Thomas' twenties came in a slightly lower-scoring era, which is why his adjusted OPS+ of 182 tops Pujols at 171. Pujols has two MVPs and one batting title while twice leading the league in OPS. Before his 30th birthday Thomas had two MVPs and one batting title while leading the league in OPS four times.
Frank Thomas was Albert Pujols before Albert Pujols. And while it remains to be seen what Pujols does after turning 30, Thomas hit .276/.389/.515 with 264 homers and a 134 OPS+ in 1,246 games. To put that into some context, consider that Jim Rice had a 128 OPS+ for his entire "Hall of Fame career." Add his amazing twenties to his very good thirties and Thomas is a career .301/.419/.555 hitter with 521 homers and a 156 OPS+.
Thomas ranks ninth all time in walks, 18th in homers, 21st in RBIs, 25th in extra-base hits, 29th in times on base, and 37th in total bases. Among players with at least 7,500 career plate appearances, Thomas ranks 11th in on-base percentage, 17th in slugging percentage, 12th in OPS, and 13th in adjusted OPS+. He's also one of just 11 players to win back-to-back MVP awards.
If he's indeed finished playing, Thomas becomes just the seventh hitter in baseball history to retire with 500 homers and a .300 batting average, joining Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Jimmie Foxx, Ted Williams, and Mel Ott. He also joins Ruth, Williams, and Ott as the only players with 500 homers, 1,500 RBIs, 1,500 walks, and a .300 average.
Whether you choose to focus on peak dominance or career longevity Thomas is quite simply one of the greatest 20 or so hitters in the history of the sport and if that doesn't get him into Cooperstown then what use is there in even having a Hall of Fame?
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You're right, this conversation shouldn't really even be happening. I can remember being young in the 90's (I was born in '84) and being amazed at Thomas' play, and at the trade value of his cards. I was and always will be a Griffey fan first and last, but Thomas was unquestionably one of the top 5 players in the game for much of the 90's, and has not dropped off in production as much as in spotlight time. I think that the rise of other stars in the late 90's and 00's overshadowed Frank simply because he never makes the news for anything but good play. From a purely stats point of view, he's a first ballot HOFer no question.
Wow. Like I said in a comment on Craig's post, I was a big fan when I was growing up, and I don't think I even realized how truly great a hitter he was. Damn. Those numbers are otherworldly.
Could be a juicer.
Thomas was the only active baseball player to be interviewed during the preparation of the Mitchell report, and he did so voluntarily. Through the late 90s and 2000s he was one that was always advocating testing.
I was in Auburn at the same time as Thomas and saw him play regularly. He was the mountain of a man then that he is now. No indication he has ever juiced. Just a natural talent.
Could be an unsubstantiated accusation. Bravo.
Vote Thomas. Vote Blyleven. No brainers. Though many HOF voters have already been proven to have no brains.
What he said.
In my opinion, it is another "Frank" who is the most overlooked slugger...I'm talking about the great Frank Robinson - the ONLY player to win a Triple-Crown in both leagues. Somehow, it seems he is forgotten when people talk of the "greats". Too bad...I guess it was he played at the same time as Aaron, Mantle, Mays, etc.
Frank Robinson played much of his career in the back waters of Cincinnati at old Crosley. Didn't help his rep much.
Gimme a freakin' break! Thomas is a first ballot HOF'er.
I don't know about being one of the top twenty hitters of all time, but he'll be in upstate NY in late July six years from now.
I agree; a first ballot HoFer. His numbers are good. I think he hung around too long and that hurts him. He hasn't even flirted with .300 since 2000 and only played in 100+ games 4 times since then. Maybe in 5 years the voters will focus on the first 11 years of his career when he was dominant and not on the last 8 when he was plagued with injuries and his numbers dropped.
True, but he did add to his counting stats that voters seem to appreciate (500 HRs). But, more importantly in my mind, he did not have the flukey late career production of players such as Bonds, Ramirez, Clemens, etc. Add that to his long history of speaking out against steroids, and I think he clearly stands out from his peers.
I don't know about being the most underrated player of all time, but he's certainly a hall of famer in my book. Frank Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. were baseball in the '90s.
Frank Thomas is also one of the rare modern players who has walked more than he has struck out.
That said, Albert Pujols does hold one major advantage to Frank Thomas, fielding. Frank Thomas was a full time DH by age 30, and probably should have been one earlier, as he was responsible for losing 64.5 runs through his career at first base (using Rtot). Albert Pujols on the other hand is a gold glove first baseman, who probably could have been a pretty damn good third baseman if not for injury concerns and the presence of Scott Rolen's gold glove on the Cardinals earlier in his career. In comparison, so far Albert Pujols has saved over 90 runs with his glove alone.
Of course just because Frank Thomas doesn't have Pujol's glove doesn't mean he wasn't a damn good slugger, and a first ballot hall of famer in my book.
Do you think that DH 'ers should get in? I mean shouldn't Hall be mostly for whole players? Maybe have a separate place for the greatest DH or pinch hitters? Just like the great closers?
If DHers shouldn't get in, then doesn't that mean we should exclude all American League pitchers, since you know, they are only half a player since they didn't hit.
Seriously, I don't punish players for playing by the rules. DH's are part of the game. If you don't like it, then deal with it.
Thomas was the dominant hitter in the AL during his time. Average, power, OBP, all were perennially at or near the top of the league. He really succeeded Jim Rice, who was the league's dominant hitter from 75 to 85.
Pujols is excellent defensively, and Thomas, well, wasn't. As a first baseman he was an excellent DH. But he was adequate mostly, and the CWS were willing to take a chance at a corner infield spot for a bat like his. I would have, too.
Frank Thomas didn't succeed Jim Rice, he obliterated him. You mention that Frank Thomas owned average, power and OBP. Well Jim Rice could only match Thomas on average. Thomas has over 100 home runs and .50 points of slugging Rice. And then there's that OBP. Jim rice had a career .352 OBP, Thomas .419. Jim Rice only walked 670 times during his career, and never more than 62 in a single season, he also struck out 1423 times in his career. Thomas on the other hand walked 1667 times in his career, and never once less than 81 times in a full season, he also only struck out 1397 times, and that's in about 1000 more plate appearances.
Jim Rice was good, but nothing special, Frank Thomas was great and very special.
*Burma Shave*
Thomas is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
Frank Thomas put up those those amazing numbers without cheating once!
Facts not in evidence.
First I'll prove that God can make a hotdog so big even he can't eat it. Then I'll prove Frank Thomas never used steroids.
Big Hurt is a first ballot HOFer no question. The numbers speak for himself. I don't think he stuck around too long but injuries slowed him down and robbed him of hitting 600 home runs.
I've always thought he was considered the best right handed hitter of his era and while he might not yet be mentioned among the all time greats I don't believe he is that under rated. He was that good and most know it.
i can't believe this would even be a question. thomas was an offensive force
Agreed completely. I know at 46 I can say "I'm getting old" but it really freaks me out to realize that so many "fans" can't even remember the 90s! Like you said, Frank Thomas was Albert Pujols back then.
I'd say he is one of them. A great player that does not get much love.
1st off, I really hope you makes HOF because I have 4 of his rookie cards :). Growing up, I wasn't a big baseball fan, but I loved watching Frank Thomas and Jr. hit. Jr. had that smooth, almost graceful swing, while Thomas was pure unadultured power. Both could hit with power, and both seemed like they were always hitting game winners. Personally I liked Griffey better because of his speed and glove, but in pure hitting Thomas was the BOMB. Can't wait until they both get in, I have 3 Griffey Jr. rookie cards too.
I didn't know Frank Thomas's numbers were that outstanding. Although he played during the 'Steroid Era", like Griffey he's never been implicated to PED's. I'd have to agree that he's 1st ballot worthy. Downside is the DH factor and less than 2500 hits. A BIG time run producer, played 19 seasons, no sleazy scandals, if his name stays clean for the next 5 years he should sail right into the HOF.
Thomas never played on a team I rooted for, but watching that man with a bat in his hands was bordering on a religious experience.
If he doesn't make it first ballot, then an new system needs to be implemented for inducting players. And all the members of BBWAA need to be put out to pasture.
Too many homers and gushers on this board.
"Religious experience" ....geesh.
Too many haters named schnoo on this board
Lived in Chicago my whole life, born in '87. Every time my mom would ask me to do something when the Hurt was up to bat, I'd say "Sorry mom, but Frank is up." She'd look at my dad like 'back me up on this' and he'd say "Sorry, but I don't blame him, Frank is up"
Hardly a hater. But certainly not a cheerleader.
How many times have you suggested Hurt could have been a cheater on here already? (Plus, you have nothing to back up what you accuse him of.) I'm a Cubs fan and even to me you sound bitter and kinda like a "hater."
Like others have posted: Whenever Big Frank came up to bat, I'd stop whatever I was doing and watch in anticipation. While at the game, there was a buzz when he dropped the iron bar in the on deck circle and walked up slowly to the batter's box. He was a pure hitter that happened to be so strong that a lot of his hits wound up being homeruns. He was a great hitter and a throw back of sorts.
If you consider that Frank Thomas faced steroid pitching, competed against steroid fielding, and played in a non-rascist league, then it is clear that he IS the Greatest Hitter of ALL TIME! Also, Giambi and Vaughn cheated him out of two more MVPs.