We've just rolled out a new section on NBCSports.com called The Five Spot.
We throw out a topic, rank the top five, and let the readers have their turn. Sort of like our own little place for bar arguments, only hopefully a little more coherent.
Anyway, the debut topic for "The Spot" is baseball's top five pitchers. The list?
1. Johan Santana
2. Roy Halladay
3. Tim Lincecum
4. CC Sabathia
5. Cole Hamels
So who got left off? Should the order be changed? For the record, I'd put Zack Greinke on there. But that's just me.
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Cliff Lee is working himself into the discussion. I'd actually personally put both him and Greinke ahead of Hamels, but the first four seem locked in either way.
i'd have the top 3 the same and put greinke at 4. i'd have to put CC at 5, simply because he's been so much more durable than hamels.
1-3, 7.92 ERA, 22 walks and 24 strikeouts in 25 innings pitched. This is cc's record in the playoffs, Andrew did you just start watching baseball or don't you understand you are supposed to win in the playoffs. cc, go have another cheesburger
25 innings ain't much of a sample size.
That's all he's been there.
and who would you put at #5? a big part of the season is simply getting to the playoffs, which comprises a MUCH larger sample size than 25 innings.
When healthy, Chris Carpenter is one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball. Over 5 starts this year, he's 3-0 with a 0.62 ERA over 29.0 innings pitched. 28 K's vs. 5 BB's isn't too shabby either.
I agree... Carpenter is dominant (health issues aside).
Cole Hamels and Tim Lincecum are great pitchers don't get me wrong, but several others have been doing it far longer.
Brandon Webb, Jay Peavy, Roy Owsalt, and Josh Beckett I think all deserve to be on that list before Hamels.
I disagree. The list is about who the current top 5 pitchers are. Webb is currently dealing with shoulder issues, though he wouldn't be a bad choice if healthy. Peavy hasn't been too durable in his career, is in the midst of a down year, and has an extreme difference in his home/away splits. Oswalt shouldn't be in the discussion anymore, though he has been productive and durable for a long time. Beckett has been inconsistent from year to year and has durability issues of his own.
Greinke has a lot of promise but it is way too early to tell. Put him on a bigger stage and see how he holds up. I suspect he'd make C.C.'s stats look like Walter Johnson's, if he even makes it to the ballpark. One could argue the same about Hamel and Lincecum but Hamel has a ring and Lincecum...well, he is just a stud.
I don't know but the Tigers #'s 1 and 2 Justin Verlander with 90 k's and Edwin Jackson, got to rank up there as one of the best tandems in baseball
baseball is a great sport but do the comparison between baseball ptichers and the women in softball who are just as talented and throw maybe harder from a shorter distance and throw back to back games in a single day. Hmmm -
Pitching in softball cannot be compared to baseball because the motion used to pitch a softball is natural to the body and causes little to no "wear and tear" on the muscles, joints, and ligaments. The only strain on the arm in softball is fatigue, which doesn't happen until a very high pitch count (200-300 in one day range). Pitching in baseball, however, is a very unnatural and harsh movement. Have you ever seen a slow-motion shot of a good pitcher snapping off a curveball? The elbow and shoulder are under extreme duress and therefore baseball pitchers cannot go every day like softball does.
Also, typically, a good college softball pitcher throws in the high 60's, low 70's.
is there a womens softball roto league?
So let's put all the women softball pitchers in Major League Baseball, and watch them each win 20 wins. You're an idiot!
The question is top 5 pitchers and everyone is listing starters. Mariano Riviera and Joe Nathan deserve consideration. Hamels doesn't belong in the top 10 starting pitcher conversation. Verlander is better.
Greinke has been the most dominant this year. Pififul that he is left off the list. He still has the best ERA in the game and tied for most wins...how do you leave that guy and want to have your list taken seriously?
Any pitcher on this list from the NL should be knocked down a couple spots simply because he pitches against lesser competition. But leaving that aside, if I had a game tomorrow give me one of three guys:
Zack Grienke / Justin Verlander / Edwin Jackson
If the NL is sooo bad, why are the phillies world champions. By the way they recently beat the Yankees 2 out of 3 in a recent series matchup.
A 3-game series does not a season make.
I wonder if you're a Tigers fan...
I'm a fan of Edwin Jackson, but saying you'd take him over any of those other guys is a joke.
I'd like to see Verlander produce at this level for a longer period of time before I annoint him one of the best, though he does have the stuff to make it.
Josh Beckett and Jake Peavy deserve consideration. Replace Lincecum and Hamels with those 2 and you have a fine list. A healthy Cris Carpenter (the hardest working pitcher in baseball) is probably 3-5 on that list.
1. Sandy Koufax
2. Bob Gibson
3. Juan Marichal
4. Mickey Lolich
5. Nolan Ryan
Walter Johnson
Bob Gibson
Nolan Ryan
Tom Seaver
Pedro Martinez
In no particular order:
Koufax/ Ryan/ Seaver/ Clemens/ Maddux
Today's players:
Sabathia/ Halladay/ Zambrano/ Linecum/ Carpenter
Zambrano? Really?
Peavy is dominant. He kills my Dodgers. Long-term health is the only problem. He got the pitching triple crown in 2007 and I'd put him either 2 or 3.
You can't leave Satchel Page off of any list - and, if you include relivers you need to add Mariano Rivera
koufax/gibson/seaver/clemens/marichal/carlton. sorry six. these were the best i personally ever saw.
Who the hell came up with that list? Greinke is the best pitcher in the league, even though I really dislike the Royals... Verlander should also be on there too, but that's more understandable, since his first few starts were rough.
put me down as saying Nolan Ryan is the biggest bunch of hype ever. He struck people out and was freakishly durable. What else did he do? Isn't win percentage and big game performance part of the equation, too? He was barely better than his team's winning percentage over his career, and actually performed below his team's performance in many seasons. That is not the mark of one of the greatest, I don't care how many strikeouts he had, it's about wins and he was merely average in that category when compared with the teams he pitched for. One more thing, what the heck is Mickey (One Man to a Pair of Pants, please) Lolich doing on that list?
Top 5 all-time
Christy Mathewson
Greg Maddux
Walter Johnson
Bob Feller
Sandy Koufax
If Edwin Jackson or Zach Grienke can maintain their numbers for about a thousand more innings, I will declare them top five in baseball.
Beckett shouldn't even be involved in the discussion.
If anybody can give a valid argument why Johan Santana isn't unarguably the best pitcher in baseball, I'd love to hear it.
If we're talking this season, the pitchers I want (stuff, durability, era, etc...)
Lincecum, Haren, Greinke, Halladay, and Carpenter. Why Santana isn't the best pitcher in baseball...look at his numbers, they don't compare to any of these guys numbers. Also, since 2004 many of his numbers have dropped every year. K/9 and K/BB on a steady decline along with others. He's nowhere near as good as he was in 2004-2006. Sorry, not the best pitcher any more, this is 2009.