Jim Leyland was fit to be tied after last night's game in Minnesota:
Shortly after midnight this morning, Tigers manager Jim Leyland stood in a Metrodome hallway and came to a boil. Leyland wasn't upset that his team had just lost its hold on a one-run lead and lost to Minnesota, 14-10, on Joe Crede's two-out grand slam in the 13th.
"I'm proud of our guys," Leyland began his postgame remarks to the media. "They battled their (butts) off."
A few moments later, Leyland was asked about his seventh-inning ejection by plate umpire Paul Schrieber.
"Did you see what happened?" Leyland said, his voice rising. "Then write what you saw. I don't have to say a word."
What happened was that Schrieber placed his hand on Magglio Ordonez's back, which sent Leyland out onto the field to get up into the umpire's face. I watched the video of the altercation and Leyland has a right to be angry. This wasn't an instance in which the ump placed a grandfatherly hand on Ordonez's shoulder while kindly explaining his strike zone to him. Rather, it looked like Schrieber was trying to shove him back towards the dugout.
Maybe the touching rules are a bit, well, touchy, but they are enforced to the nth degree against the players. It's a bright line: you touch the ump, you're gone, and you're probably suspended. Indeed, just a couple of weeks ago Milton Bradley was suspended when the brim of his cap grazed the home plate ump's nose. Slight bumps in the past have led to suspensions of other players as well.
I'm not a fan of zero tolerance rules -- circumstances matter, and I prefer some sense and context to enter into the enforcement of every rule -- but if the personal space of the umps is going to continue to be held absolutely inviolate, the same has to go for the players. No touching ever, and violations of the bright line rule should be met with the same sort of discipline that is typically meted out to the players. That especially goes in this case, because Schrieber clearly crossed a line that is typically respected.
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Totally agree -- that was a ridiculous move by the umpire. He was actually kind of ridiculous all night, as the few pitches he saw fit to call strikes were usually well out of the zone. But the treatment of Ordonez was completely out of line.
Well, hindsight is 20/20, but in this case it comes soon enough to matter: Ordonez himself said it wasn't even a push; it in fact felt just like that "fatherly hand."
But considering we're in the day and age where pitchers get suspended 5 games for merely pitching inside without hitting anyone, things should be consistent: ump should be suspended WITH pay just like the pitchers.
I'm pretty sure that suspended players are docked pay for those suspended games.
Well we all know that former Major Leaguer who has forgotten what is to a fomrer player will probably not do nothing, casue he is Selig's boy toy & we all know Selig's likes to keep his head in the sand. Some umpires thinks the game is about them, problem is they were never good enough to play on the level they get to rule on.
No doubt this umpire should be suspensed, for at least three games...
Oh these highly paid athletes are offended because an umpire touched him. If you do not like it go play tiddily winks,or bowling . It is not like he shoved you he was keeping you from his space . Go home and play baseball where you get a beer for playing instead of millions.
Ed -- if a player gets suspended for barely grazing an ump, why doesn't the ump get suspended for shoving a player? How is that at all fair?
A highly unlikely twist, what happens if an injury say a dislocated shoulder was the end result of this situation.
I agree with suspending the ump, but I also see Eds point especially since its an ego thing from both sides.
Ed, were you watching the game? Ordonez was shoved. Schrieber called a third strike on a pitch that was clearly out of the zone (I'm a Twins fan, and more than ready to admit that was a horrible call). Ordonez turned and said something along the lines of "Really??". Schrieber then put his hand on Ordonez's back and shoved him towards the dugout. Ordonez was in no way moving towards Schrieber and he had already taken his first step towards the dugout when he was pushed. This was entirely the umpire initiating contact, and it was completely out of line. Schrieber should absolutely be suspended.
Ed - yer an idiot. What the He!!'s the difference? If the "highly paid athlete" shoves an umpire - he's done. No questions asked. Suspension....Why shouldn't Schrieber be suspended as well? He's paid well. Maybe not as much as Ordonez makes, but he's paid well. He also needs to maintain his composure. Schrieber made a mistake, now he needs to pay for making that mistake.
Like I said - yer an idiot!
I didn't see the incident but was Ordonez ejected for arguing balls and strikes? Most umps are pretty good and let a player say his piece, but if they are persistant, they can be ejected. The umps do not have to say or do anything else, so yes, they should make Schrieber sit a few out. Can a player grieve that thru the players union for an umpire making bodily contact with him (Ordonez)?
It was hardly a "shove." Ordonez complained for a while about the bad strike call and then the ump tried to escort him towards the dugout. If anything the ump was trying to end the argument so the player would not be ejected. Part of an umps job is to keep the game moving. Should he have touched the player? No. However, it is not a fair comparison to treat it like a player shoving an on field authority figure (ie: the ump). Policemen are like real life umpires. Say you disagree with a policeman's reason for saying you need to leave a strip club. You insist it was that other guy who grabbed the waitresses backend. He doesn't care. Tells ya no charges but you gotta go. After some jawing the policeman puts a hand on your shoulder and steers you toward the door. That is not assault. However, the same amount of contact by you towards a policeman is handled much differently. Whether you understand it or not, there is a huge difference between contact on an authority figure and contact by one.
The thing is, players get ejected/suspended for unintentional contact with umpires, as in Craig's Milton Bradley example. This was obviously intentional contact. Though it was obviously not malicious, it was still uncalled for and the umpire should face some sort of disciplinary measure. Either a written reprimand or 1 game suspension would be appropriate.
An ump isn't an "authority figure" at all, and certainly not one to the level of a cop. An up is not the players' better, he's not their boss. He's just a ref - just another person on the field.
Largebill, you answered your own question: "should he have touched the player? No." Right, he shouldn't have. When a player does something he shouldn't do there are consequences. Same should be true for umpires.
The umpire should be suspended, it may have been a minor shove but it was a shove none the less. He obviously knew he was wrong right away because he didn't toss Mags. MLB needs to suspend hime for no other reason than to protect other umpires from this escalating. By the way Ed nice racist remark, I thought baseball and its fans were beyond that. If all the Latin players were to "go home" as you put it. MLB would be in one sorry state.
If anyone would like to let Bud Selig's office know how you feel, the phone number for the commissioners office is 212-931-7800.
This was not a shove but rules are rules even if they are dumb rules. I'd rather see them change the rule but short of that the ump needs to be diciplined.
None of that excuses Ordonez or Leyland acting like a 4-year old, however. Hard to find a hero or a victim in any of this.
Ordonez was definitely shoved (or pushed or however you want to say it). Ordonez wasn't even arguing, though. He asked, with a bit of incredulity, where the thrid strike pitch was. The ump then said something to him and pushed on the back of his shoulder to move him towards the Tigers' dugout.
Leyland was upset, as he should have been, but yes, maybe he acted irrationally in bounding out of the dugout the way he did.
I agree that the ump should be suspended/disciplined.
I was listening to the Twins radio broadcast, even they said that was completely out of line and Leyland had a right to be upset. This should be a suspension.
In a sport where standing in front of 60,000 people and screaming at officials of authority is accepted and encouraged anything can be expected. Even worse the officials are allowed to scream back at the managers and players. You don’t see officials in other sports screaming at coaches. How about trying to act like adults? Screaming and yelling by everyone only escalates the intensity and then stupid things happen. Baseball is just about the only sport where players and managers are allowed to carry on for God only knows how long ranting and raving and throwing things around. It’s considered “part of the game.” Why can’t we all just get along? J
In today’s USA society I’m surprised an umpire hasn’t been shot.
Greystoke, no one's talking about an umpire being shot...you miss the point and then some. What is being discussed is that the rules, whether in an office or a playing field, need to be equal here. If an umpire pushes a player, he should be suspended as long as a player or manager. I and millions of other fans do not pay to watch an umpire show who's boss, we pay to watch a game fairly played and fairly umpired. Bob Watson needs to get his eyes out of the microscope and on the video of this. Does MLB want to lose more fans (and revenue)?
My point is that this sport encourages and allows players and officials to get nose to nose and disrespect each other on the field. Incidents like the one this article is about are bound to happen. Interactions between players and officials in baseball are extremely unprofessional. Once the sport grows up and stops the on-field screaming, incidents like the one mentioned will not happen.
It's OK to stand there nose to nose and scream but don't touch each other! How stupid is that. Just a show for the fans.
Anybody have video link to incident?
Watch it to the end. Many are seeing the touch shown at the beginning of this clip and think it is the one that is causing the uproar. The push is at the very end.
I completely disagree that the ump should be suspended. Anyone who thinks it is the same thing for a player to put hands on an ump as it is for an ump to put hands on a player is way off base. The ump is not a peer of the player. He is an authority figure with authority over the game and the player. A similar scenario would be if you were standing outside of a nightclub after it closes and a police officer tells you it's time to leave. You're completely sober and are having a reasonable discussion with the police officer about why it's okay to stay. The officer decides there has been enough discussion and puts his hand on your back and steers you towards your car, telling you that talking is over and it's time to go. He has the right to do that, and you do not have the right to put your hands on the officer.
I just don't buy this "authority figure" crap at all. An umpire is just an umpire. His only authority is that in his arrogant head.
Remember when Bob Knight got fired at Indiana for grabbing a student who called out to him, "Hey, Knight?" You could say that Knight was an authority figure - he was an adult, a "faculty member" at the school, and the other person was just a student. But did that give Knight the right to put his hands on the student? Not in a million years. He deserved to get fired.
This ump, of course, should not be fired. That would be rediculous. But he should be suspended. You don't put your hands on another person.
Just saw the replay while eating lunch. If the rules state the umpire cannot touch a player, then I agree with a suspension. However, if that is not the case, nothing the umpire did warrants any kind of penalty. He simply placed his hand on the players back and gently encouraged him to move along. Baseball players are the biggest primadonnas in professional sports. It is the only sport that players do not shake hands with the opposing team after the game / event is over.
Guess you don't watch many American professional sports. The only one I know of where they shake hands is ice hockey at the end of a playoff series. I don't know of any other American professional sport where they shake hands at all.
But hey, I may be wrong :)
u r correct, Hockey is also the ONLY sport where
MEN DO NOT SLAP EACH OTHER ON THE BUTT..............
This needs to STOP.
Here's a note to the idiots bashing Leyland for his actions after 'shove-gate': While he may have only been a little irked by the umpire putting his hands on Ordonez, he has to go out screaming and really sticking up for his player. If he didn't, his team wouldn't respect him and trust him in the future. Put yourself in their shoes - if someone violated you in some way at your job and your boss didn't stick up for you, how much would you respect your boss? Fast forward to the next Tigers-Twins game in the series.... some jockstrap on the Twins faked getting hit by a pitch (when he clearly DIDN'T get hit), and Gardenhire came out fighting for his rights, too. Gardy's position was wrong and he was fighting for a liar, but the purpose is the same. As a manager, you have to keep the respect and trust of the ballplayers. Sometimes, arguing calls accomplishes that, especially when you're sticking up for a player individually (rather than out vs. safe or ball vs. strike). I have been a Tigers fan all my life, but I am not a Leyland fan, but for those of you that are concentrating on his actions, you have to remember to look outside the box and see what else is really going on. The rules are the rules, and MLB has a no tolerance no-touch policy, whether you like it or not, whether it's too extreme or not. Leyland was correctly arguing the rules, and at the same time securing his place with his players. So, in conclusion, though he's a mumblin' old coot who's lost his baseball edge, Leyland was not the one out of line in this situation. And I also cheer on Gardy for his intensity the following night.
Tell the UMPSI don't pay $200.00 per seat at Citi field and Yankee Stadium
to watch them, I come to see BASEBALL PLAYERS...........