Forbes magazine ranked the baseball rivalries the other day, and you may be surprised at which one is not number one:
Absurd as it seems, Yankees-Red Sox tickets are no longer difficult to come by. Not long ago, scalpers charged the Bronx faithful epic markups for the benefit of a seat in the stadium. Now, if you log on to the Yankees' Web site or walk up to the ticket window, you can get seats in almost any section. Another rivalry fallen into decline.
Of course, Yankee Stadium's slender crowds are mostly to do with stratospheric ticket prices amid a global recession ($95 for the cheapest field-level seat; they go up to $2,600). Even so, the famed East Coast fight only ranks second on our list of baseball's most intense rivalries.
The top distinction belongs to the bi-coastal San Francisco Giants-Los Angeles Dodgers feud, which began as an inter-borough sauce back when the Giants played in Uptown Manhattan and the Dodgers in Flatbush, Brooklyn.
It doesn't seem all that absurd to me. Forbes attempts some sort of numerical breakdown to rank these things, but I'd buy the Dodgers and Giants as bigger rivals even in terms of broad historical vibe.
The Giants and Dodgers shared a city and a league for the better part of a century, fighting over fans and press and glory and all of that. Heightening things was the fact that the Giants were the NL's premiere team for the first half of the 20th Century, with the Dodgers ultimately wrestling that title away from them. While the teams moving to California certainly galled their New York fanbase, the part of that fanbase that didn't abandon them were probably doubly miffed that the Giants and Dodgers each needed one another in order to make West Coast baseball work. It's the same dynamic that makes siblings fight, and it certainly leads to a particular kind of nastiness that other rivalries don't have.
As for the Yankees and Red Sox? For all of the hype it gets today and the hatred it inspires in the fanbase, it's a rivalry -- as we've come to understand the term -- that is of a far more recent vintage than most realize. Remember the famous Don Zimmer quote: "Don't worry, we've been beating these guys for 86 years." The Red Sox have always been a better team than their pre-2004 sad-sack reputation suggested, but in terms of how they matched up against the Yankees when it mattered, they really weren't on the radar until very recently.
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I can't stand articles like this. I looked up the word "rivalry" and nowhere does it state that team A should beat team B roughly 50% of the time and vise versa. Instead, it is defined as "a competitive or antagonistic state or condition". In other words, if two teams hate each other, if their fans hate each other, if losing to that opponent hurts like a mother, that's a rivalry! If there's a playoff like atmosphere in the air for a preseason "showdown" between the two teams, that's a rivalry! If its hotly competitive, and perennially sold out (with the exception of this year due to rediculous ticket prices), that's a freaking rivalry! If walking around Boston with a Yankee cap on can get you spit on, or beaten up, guess what? That's a rivalry!! This technicality of, well, the Red Sox never won pre-2004, is flat out stupid. Red Sox - Yankees draws damn near international attention. You'd be hard presssed to find anyone outside Cali who cares about Dodgers - Giants. Redsox - Yankees transcends baseball and is routinely compare to rivalries in other sports, so don't give me this pre-2004 argument, because anyone who doesn't think this hasn't been a deep, bitter, blood sweat and tears rivarly for almost a century has clearly never been to one of these games, and is clearly being paid on a per article basis, and thus, has to create something out of nothing to justify their paycheck!
Might I suggest writing something insightful instead of being contrarian for contrarian's sake?
If you want to see a good 'ol fashioned rivalry, check out the Phillies and Mets for the last couple of years. What started as a train-ride series for the fans (myself included) has evolved into utter nastiness. Spend one night in the stands - at either stadium - or just listen to some of the now-infamous quotes (Jimmy Rollins anyone?) that turn into bulletin-board fodder...this series is now 2 teams from 2 cities that just don't like each other!
Spitting on Yankees fans doesn't mean a rivalry. It just means that Red Sox fans shouldn't be allowed in public.
And I suppose you'd claim Yankee fans do not show nastiness to Red Sox fans?
No, Yankee fans are just as insufferable as Red Sox fans. Just wasn't talking to a Yankee fan at that particular moment.
Bed Stuy: you say that "If its hotly competitive" it's a rivalry. Doesn't that undercut your assertion that there need not be a near 50-50 thing?
Also, everything you describe about Yankees-Red Sox is post 1978 -- and really, a post-1996 or so -- creation. I'm guessing you weren't a big baseball fan in the 1980s when Yankee Stadium and Fenway were rarely flled to capacity for these games (for example, look at 1989 when many games in The Stadium drew 28-33K fans when capacity was 57K). Before 1978? It simply wasn't that big of a deal because the Red Sox were really only a competitive team on an intermittant basis.
So yeah, I'll grant you that today in the here and now it's the most highly pitched rivalry. But that's not what the Forbes article was looking at.
In the 1980's I was too young to tell the difference. The article was addressing modern times, and thus, the state of these rivalries TODAY is indeed all that matters. And no, "hotly contested" does not = 50-50 winning by both parties. Watch the 2003 ALCS between redsox and yankees and tell me if that doesn't strike you as hotly contested. Yankees won, as always, but it was indeed hotly contested. Dig? Even if one team wins all the time, the fact that its always close, always comes down to the wire, always necessitates beating the redsox, that makes it hotly contested. If you don't see that, if you don't feel the passion in these games, the "heat" if you will, then you're just not paying attention.
I don't care what anyone says, I couldn't give two sh*ts about the Dodgers-Giants. But if there's a Red Sox-Yankees game on, even in the opening week of the season, I'll watch it. I don't care much for baseball (for tons of reasons I don't need to go into) but as a sports fan, I love a good rivalry.
You're right Linda, the Mets-Phillies hatred for each other has definitely heated up the past couple seasons, would love to see them meet in the playoffs this year.
Perfect example. Phillies always win, but it's still a rivarly, right???
Dodgers/Giants is true hatred....the players get caught up in it....the fans truly hate each other...SF looks down its collective nose at LA as a self-indulgent sun-worshipping, superficial fanbase, while LA laughs at SF's sense of self-importance, and supposed sophistication, and the fact that the Giants have done nothing of importance since their move west. When Globe-head Bonds was in left, he was vilified in a way that was far worse than any other city, and any Dodger will tell you how hostile Candlestick Park was, although the new park is still anti-Dodger to the core. This is truly a mutual hate rivalry. Boston and New York are too much alike. And there is no comparable event like the Juan Marichal attack on John Roseboro with a bat.
Screw the giants, DODGER BLUE FOR LIFE!!!!
Cub-Cards anyone???
Yankees-Red Sox only became an "internationally recognized" rivalry after ESPN decided to cover almost every game of it (NYC has more people, so more ratings). It's shoved in everyone's faces so often, of course we think it's the best rivalry.
The fact is, Dodgers-Giants is the most HISTORIC rivalry. Anyone who actually studies baseball should understand that. Barry Bonds just spoke to the hatred he and his team received from Dodger fans - to get Dodger fans to care that much about ANYTHING should tell you how important that rivalry is.
And if yelling at random that somebody sucks is the hallmark of a great rivalry, you've got to give that one to Cubs Right Field vs. Cubs Left Field.
ESPN wasn't around when the Red Sox sold the Bambino to the Yankees. THAT was the start of it and it has been on again, off again ever since. There isn't an older rivalry that I can think off in professional sports. I've been in the stands for a Yankee - Sox matchup and the taunting was good natured for the most part. Caught a Giants - Dodger game at Candlestick, and people were trying to HURT each other. Never been afraid at a sporting event before or since. Red Sox - Yankees, that's a rivalry, Giants - Dodgers, them folks is crazy.
To claim that the Sox-Yanks rivalry is really only a recent event is flat out wrong. It the oldest rivalry in all sports, dating back to the 1904 season when the underdog Yankees, an upstart team no one thought much of nearly took the pennent from the Mighty Sox (Yes, the whole thing was backward back then, alot like now). The Yankees dominance over the red sox is misleading. The Red Sox were the second best team of the 1940's in all of baseball. Had they been a National league team they would have won many pennents that decade as they often boasted better teams then the Cardinals, Dodgers or Reds. The rivalry was and usually still is a battle of titans. It was then Williams vs Dimaggio, with Williams the better player but Dimaggio on the better team. Two years at the end of the decade the Red Sox won over 90 games only to finish second to the Yankees. The 70's rivalry was much the same.
The Dodgers- Giants rivalry is a great one, for sure. However since the 1960's when both teams were contenders year in and year the rivalry has not seen many close pennent races between the teams, which is the best measure of the rivalry.
The beauty of this article is the title. The only reason 90% of people read is it starts Yankees vs Redsox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if it were true It would start Giants VS dodgers
the article is a beauty. The only reason 90% of the people read it it starts with YANKEES VS REDSOX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if the article matter it would start giants vs dodgers.
The quote about "86 years" was not Zimmer as he was only with the Yankees in any capacity for about a dozen years. It was Yogi Berra who made that quote.
The Giants drew 30100, 30400, and 37700 fans to the recent 3 game series against the Dodgers. Given that they're averaging 35000 against ALL teams this season, either:
A) this article is just aiming to be contrarian
B) the below-average attendance was caused by fans fighting in the parking lots instead of heading into games
Yes, yes, Bos/NY gets all the press because of the New York market is so big, blah blah blah. Last I checked San Francisco & Los Angeles were kinda large cities as well... except the people there don't actually care about baseball.
Great article couldn't agree more. ESPN's east coast bias might make you think Red Sox-Yankees is the best rivalry but this writer hit the nail right on the nose.
The Red Sox-Yankee rivalry was completely one sided until about 5-7 years ago.
gzzz....."Yes, yes, Bos/NY gets all the press because of the New York market is so big, blah blah blah. Last I checked San Francisco & Los Angeles were kinda large cities as well... except the people there don't actually care about baseball."
First of all San Francisco really isn't that big of a city and....
guess what there was 54,000 at the Dodger game last night on a weekday! Dodgers are 1st or 2nd in attendance every year...get over yourself.
I disagree with this, and I'm a hardcore Giants fan. The LA and SF players have not cared about this so-called rivalry for a long, long time. The fans, yeah, we hate the other guys with a passion. When I watch the Yanks and BoSox, you can tell there's some real strong feelings there. Hard to call Giants/Dodgers the best rivalry when the players couldn't care less. It ain't Marichal/Roseboro anymore.
So the Dodgers get 54000 on a Thursday against San Diego, and 36000 on a previous Thursday against the Giants.
Time to re-rank the rivalries? #1) Dodgers / Padres. #2) Dodgers / Giants?
Congrats Dodgers, in a city of 17 million people, you manage to fill your stadium to 80% capacity! Well, for the 3rd inning through the 6th inning anyway. Gotta beat that traffic. Feel the excitement!
For what it's worth, the Red Sox are always sold out. In 2008, they had an attendance of 104% at home games and had the highest away game attendance percentage at 84%. So far this year, the Red Sox have a home game attendance percentage of 101.6%.
Of course, Fenway park is a relatively small stadium. If only it were as large ball parks that host the Yankees and Dodgers, then maybe we Red Sox fans could attend a home game, rather than having to head to Baltimore or New York to see our beloved Red Sox.
Craig, I think you're right on here, but of course I'm completely biased as a lifelong Giants fan. I grew up going to the 'Stick for Giants-Dodgers games, and they were rough, ugly affairs - when I was twelve a friend of mine had a full cup of beer poured on him for wearing a Dodgers cap. Yes, it was gross and unnecessary and probably could be considered assault. Today we have the stockbrokers in suits drinking chardonnay and eating sushi behind home plate, but I don't care, because it pays the mortgage on the only recent privately-financed ballpark in baseball, and out in the cheap seats the rivalry still burns bright.
Matt S.: Giants-Dodgers is older than Sox-Yanks, having begun when the Brooklyn Bridegrooms moved to the NL in 1890. The American League didn't exist yet.
gzzzz: That was a cold, wet set of weeknight games in a city of 800,000, in the smallest two-team market in baseball. Yeah, I admit, they still should have been sold out. It's been a few years since the Giants have been good and the attendance is starting to reflect this.
And, finally, the head-to-head record between the Giants and Dodgers is 1074-1059, in favor of the Giants. The Yankees lead the Red Sox 1108-927.